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Michael G. Branson Michael G. Branson, CEO of All Reverse Mortgage, Inc., and moderator of ARLO™, has 45 years of experience in mortgage banking, with the past 20 years devoted exclusively to reverse mortgages. A Forbes Real Estate Council member, he developed the industry's first fixed-rate jumbo reverse mortgage and has been featured in Forbes, Kiplinger, the LA Times, and Yahoo Finance. (License: NMLS# 14040)
Cliff Auerswald Cliff Auerswald, President of All Reverse Mortgage, Inc., and co-creator of ARLO™ — the industry's first real-time reverse mortgage pricing engine — has 27 years of experience in mortgage banking, with 20+ years focused exclusively on reverse mortgages. A recognized expert in reverse mortgage technology and consumer education, he has been featured in Kiplinger, Yahoo Finance, Realtor.com, and HousingWire. (License: NMLS# 14041)

Dangers of Leaving Spouse off Title for a Reverse Mortgage

Michael G. Branson, CEO of All Reverse Mortgage
CEO · 45 yrs in mortgage banking
Cliff Auerswald, President of All Reverse Mortgage
President · All Reverse Mortgage Inc.
4 min read Fact Checked HUD-Lender #26031-0007 30 comments

I am in North Carolina, and I’m not on the house deed. We applied for a reverse mortgage, signed the papers and appraisal was done today. I question them about me not being on the house deed and I was told it was not necessary. Is this true? If it is, where do I stand?



I hate hearing stories like this. I believe you should be given all the information and then allowed to make an informed decision, not just told that it’s not necessary.  It may or may not be necessary, depending on your circumstances.

Let me explain.

Firstly, if you are not old enough to be a borrower on the loan, you are considered a non-borrowing spouse no matter what.

Whether you are on the title or not, the borrower is married, so your information is considered.  As long as you are living in the property when the loan is originated and closed, you are considered an eligible non-borrowing spouse at that time.

An eligible non-borrowing spouse can become ineligible over time, and I will explain how that happens.  However, an ineligible spouse can never become eligible later.


Dangers of Leaving Spouse off Title for a Reverse Mortgage

Understanding Spousal Eligibility for Reverse Mortgages

If you are not living in the home at the time the loan is completed.  From what you have said, I assume you are an eligible non-borrowing spouse.  What you did not tell me is if you are 62 years of age or older.

If you are 62 years of age or older, there is no reason whatsoever that they do not add you to the title before starting the loan and make you a co-borrower so that if anything ever happens to your husband, you have full access to the reverse mortgage and the right to remain in the property after he passes.

As an eligible non-borrowing spouse, you can remain in the property after he passes if you have not become ineligible.  However, you must take title to the property within 60 days after the borrower passes and continue to meet the reverse mortgage provisions of the loan (pay the taxes and insurance on time and maintain the home reasonably).

To remain eligible, you must continue living in the property, you cannot move out and then move back in at some point later.  And here is a very important distinction: as an eligible non-borrowing spouse, you cannot access the reverse mortgage itself.

If you are not yet 62 years of age, you cannot be a co-borrower and cannot access the loan. This means that if your spouse passes away while there is still a balance available on the line of credit, you cannot access those funds.

If you are 62 or over and they put you on title now, if anything happens to your spouse, you have full access to the loan proceeds and are a co-borrower.



Enhancing Spousal Rights: The Impact of HUD’s Final Rule

And since HUD issued its Final Rule in September 2017, there is no reason not to allow you to be on title at this time (unless you and your spouse wish it to be that way).

In the past, individuals who were not eligible for the loan could also not be on title when the loan closed, but this is no longer the case.

Unless there is some reason you and your spouse wish you not to be on the title, I would recommend that you be added to the title now so that if anything happens, you do not have to go through probate or worry about any other delays to change the title at that time.

In short, unless there is some reason you and your spouse do not want you on the title currently, there is no reason whatsoever to leave you off and plenty of good reasons to add you now, whether you are 62 years of age or not.

Leaving you off of the title may not cause you any trouble, especially if you are using all the funds to buy a new home or to pay off an existing mortgage (in which case there will be no funds available later anyway), but it would limit you on the availability to funds if your spouse passes with available funds on the line.

Putting you on title now would also mean that you have to worry about changing the title within a relatively short time frame later if anything happens to your spouse, and my advice is always that it is easier to do it now, while you are both here and healthy than later at a very difficult time in your life just after you have lost a spouse.



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Author Michael Branson
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Michael G. Branson CEO, All Reverse Mortgage, Inc. and moderator of ARLO™ has 45 years of experience in the mortgage banking industry. He has devoted the past 20 years to reverse mortgages exclusively.

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30 Comments on this Article
  1.   Patti
    August 12th, 2024
    My mom owns her home with no debt on it. I am also on the deed, but I am not 62. Can she still do a reverse mortgage?
    Reply to Patti
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      August 14th, 2024
      Hi Patti,
      Yes, your mom can still do a HUD HECM reverse mortgage as long as you are willing to participate in the loan to some extent. Although you would not be a borrower, since you are on the title, you would need to attend the counseling to ensure you are aware of the loan terms. Additionally, there are several documents you would need to sign to acknowledge that you are not on the loan and that you understand the loan becomes due and payable when your mom no longer lives in the home as her primary residence.
      You also need to be aware that when your mom permanently leaves the home, you will need to have a plan in place to refinance the loan, pay it off with other available funds, or sell the home. Knowing this in advance makes it much easier to plan for that eventuality rather than being caught off guard later.
      Reply to Michael
  2.   Alice T.
    July 15th, 2024
    In 2011, my husband, who was 75 years old, took out a line of credit reverse mortgage. At that time, I was 52, and due to the rules, I had to be removed from the deed. So, we split our property, leaving enough land with the house and deeded it to my husband. We put the remaining acreage under my name only. Here we are in 2024, having enjoyed the line of credit. My husband is now 87, I am 65, and we have remained married since 2009, living in the house together as our primary residence.
    Does the new HUD law allow me to remain in the house as an eligible non-borrowing spouse? I understand I can't access any line of credit funds and must continue to pay taxes, maintenance, etc. We will be seeking an attorney to have our names added back to both parcels or, as my husband says, at least my name to the house deed.
    Thank you for your wonderful website and information.
    Reply to Alice
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      July 15th, 2024
      Hello Alice,
      Two things. Firstly, you can be added to the title at any time with a reverse mortgage as long as your husband also remains on the title. Do not attempt to alter the lot lines or rejoin the parcels, as that would trigger a clause allowing the lender to call the loan due and payable. There is nothing to prevent you from deeding your parcel to you and your husband, and him deeding his to himself and you. Your attorney will know how to do this to avoid any taxation issues.
      HUD announced in 2014 that any spouses who were married at the time the loan closed, live in the home, and have always lived there since the loan closed will receive the deferral that the eligible non-borrowing spouse receives under the program. You are correct; you will not have access to any funds remaining in the line of credit at that time (if any), but you can remain in the home with no mortgage payment as long as you continue to pay the taxes and insurance in a timely manner.
      Reply to Michael
  3.   Bill F.
    March 19th, 2024
    My wife and I are co-borrowers on a HECM and jointly own the title. Due to my wife's Alzheimer's, she's moving into long-term care, and I wish to become the sole homeowner. Can this be adjusted? Given her move, upon my death, the house will not be our principal residence, necessitating mortgage repayment then. Is this understanding correct?
    Reply to Bill
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      March 19th, 2024
      Hello Bill,
      There would be no problem with the title as long as at least one of you remains on title and no problem with the loan as long as at least one of you is still living in the home. When the last borrower on the loan is no longer living in the home, then the loan becomes due and payable.
      I would caution you about the change of title if your wife were not of sound mind, though. Be sure you do not put a cloud on your title by using a power of attorney that may not be used for a "self-serving" act. Check with your attorney and make certain that you have the title changed correctly. If your wife cannot sign for herself at this time, you may not be able to use a power of attorney to change the title into your name. An attorney may be able to keep you from making a mistake that could cloud the title and cause problems later.
      Reply to Michael
  4.   Gail L.
    September 24th, 2020
    My mom has the title to her home which is paid off. My sister and I are also on it. My mom is doing a reverse mortgage and wants me to sign papers that the title goes back to her. I want to make sure my kids are entitled to a portion of the home when she passes, how do we do this?
    Reply to Gail
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      September 24th, 2020
      Hello Gail,
      There are several things you can do to ensure heirship and I would suggest that you contact an estate attorney for guidance in this aspect.
      I am confused though.
      Is the house your mom's home that she added you to title or is it your home that you added mom or did you all purchase the home together?
      If it is mom's house that she or she and her husband purchased and paid for that she/they added you to title, why would you refuse her if she has a need?
      I suppose you could offer to give her the money she needs instead of the reverse mortgage with your repayment being the home after she passes if the home is hers if that would make things more palatable.
      After all, if it is and always was mom's home, it would seem to me that if she needs the money to live now there are two options: you and your sister can supply her with the funds she requires or she can get them from her asset.
      However, you do not need to remove yourself from title for mom to get the reverse mortgage if you determine that is the way to proceed.
      At one time, HUD did require ineligible borrowers to be removed from title, but this has not been true since HUD issued their Final Rule in 2017.
      You and your sister would need to also complete the counseling and sign some forms as a co-owner, but you can remain on title.
      Reply to Michael
  5.   Jeanie
    September 1st, 2020
    Hi ARLO, I have two sons one son is buying a home he is 45. He wants to know when my other son turns 62 can he quick claim deed to him so he can qualify for a Reverse Mortgage?
    Reply to Jeanie
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      September 1st, 2020
      Hello Jeanie,
      If your other son has also been living in the home and is over the age of 62, then yes, he could be added to title to apply for a reverse mortgage.
      If however, the son turning 62 has not been living in the home and the younger son is just executing a Quit Claim Deed now to enable a reverse mortgage even though there is no history of the older brother living in the home, the lender may not accept the occupancy.
      The lender will underwrite based on history and likelihood of continuance and if the older son has never lived in the home or held title to it prior to that time, they may feel that the change of title is just to get around the age requirements of the loan and in that case, the loan request would not be approved.
      Reply to Michael
  6.   James C.
    October 6th, 2019
    I'm a non-borrowing spouse. 5 months after my wife death the reverse mortgage was from 2005 year. Right now I owe $114,000.00 what my options?
    Reply to James
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      October 6th, 2019
      Hello James,
      Hopefully your spouse added you back to title already so that you do not have to go through that but if not, you need to first have the title placed in your name and that may require a probate action. If that is the case, I would suggest you contact an estate attorney to be sure it is handled quickly and efficiently.
      Once you have title, you can sell the home, you can refinance the loan of if there is no equity left in the property, you always have the option of allowing the lender to take the property and owing nothing (and if you choose the third option, you may not even want to go through the hassle of a title change but that would be up to you and your attorney to determine).
      You can always contact the servicer and request to be added as an eligible non-borrowing spouse, but I warn you in advance that this is seldom approved. However, it doesn't hurt to make the request and if you can get the approval, it would allow you to remain in the home for life under the terms of the existing loan. That too would require you to have title to the house and if that is the avenue you wish to pursue; you should contact the servicer of the loan as soon as possible as there are time constraints for approval.
      Reply to Michael
  7.   Sandra
    August 15th, 2019
    I am 64 and my husband is 62. We are thinking of getting a reverse mortgage. I am not on the deed at this point. Is it better to have him put me on the deed before we apply, or can we just apply for a reverse mortgage and have my name put on the deed at that point?
    Reply to Sandra
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      August 15th, 2019
      Hello Sandra,
      If you are living in the property there is no need to put you on the title (deed) in advance. They can do this as part of the closing, and it will not delay the process.
      Reply to Michael
    •   Deborah
      December 10th, 2021
      Except in community property states, there is a significant reason for spouses to be ON title; DIVORCE! After 15 years together, my WY husband filed for divorce and kept $900K of equity in the 3 homes we shared, jointly renovated, and put money into because only he was on title. I was awarded only $59K of cash assets at age 58. My career prospects in shambles from supporting HIS career and frequent relocations. I thought we were saving for OUR retirement. To my surprise, he thought "till death do us part" means that when HE dies, his obligation to me is over and he can leave everything to his kids. For richer or poorer, I never thought he would succumb to the temptation and challenges of being "richer". If your spouse balks at fixing title, there may be more issues in the relationship than you realize.
      Reply to Deborah
      • Michael Branson Michael Branson
        December 16th, 2021
        Hello Deborah,
        There are several pitfalls to removing a spouse from title to get a reverse mortgage and really no reason to do it any more now that HUD allows for non-borrowing spouses under the age of 62 to remain on title to close the loan. However, even before HUD allowed the non-borrowing spouse to remain on title, we encouraged borrowers and their spouses to seek legal advice before making any changes to title and to consider adding the non-borrowing spouse back to title immediately after the loan closed.
        HUD allowed (and still does) reverse mortgage borrowers to add anyone else to title as long as the borrower is also on title with them and they continue to live in the property and pay the property obligations in a timely manner (i.e., taxes, insurance, HOA dues, etc.).
        I am not an attorney and cannot advise anyone on legal matters but we do advise people to get spouses on title as soon as possible from the standpoint of the loan and to write letters of authorization to the lender so that the lender will work with spouses who are not on the loan should something happen and the non-borrowing spouse needs to negotiate with the lender on the repayment of the loan with a refinance or the sale of the property. I suppose it is a red flag though if only one spouse is on title and will not allow the other spouse to join them on title as you seem to indicate was the situation in your case.
        With 3 houses of which you shared the title of none with your spouse, it was not a reverse mortgage issue. It seems your spouse had other plans from the start when he refused to put you on the title of any of the houses you owned and I would say that any married couple that had that situation might want to consider reviewing their circumstances with an attorney in any state whether it is a community property state or not.
        Reply to Michael
  8.   Lynn B.
    June 27th, 2019
    My wife and I took out a reverse in 2006' she was 62 but I wasn't. We wanted it to fix up home, they made me sign off title so we could qualify for loan. They did not tell me I could not get back on title when 62. She has passed after 3 years dementia. Now they are saying they are foreclosing on loan, what can I do? I am 72 and we have been here 17 years. Scared to death.
    Reply to Lynn
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      June 27th, 2019
      Hello Lynn,
      I am so sorry to hear of your loss. The loan documents specifically state that borrowers can bring anyone on to title they choose if they are still on title as well. Your loan officer should have told you to go right back on title even if you came off but whether he/she did or not, it was always there in the loan documents.
      About the property now, you need to immediately have the title put into your name. I would advise you to contact an estate attorney as it will probably take a probate as it does not sound like you had a trust established with you as the successor trustee and I don't know if you both had a will (and probate would probably be required even if you do have a will). The loan would still be due and payable at this time though whether you changed the title back to both of your names at that time or any time between then and now or not-it would just make the next steps easier if you had.
      The next step would be to decide what you want to do with the home. If there is adequate equity and you qualify under today's parameters, you can refinance the loan with a new reverse mortgage in just your name now (assuming you are given title by the court which should happen especially since you were previously on title). That would depend on the amount of money you used from the previous mortgage, the interest that has accrued, the value of the home now and your qualifications.
      But if you do qualify, a refinance would be a good option. If not, you can refinance the loan with a standard or forward mortgage or sell the property before the lender can foreclose. Any option you choose though must be done quickly because if the lender is already talking about foreclosure, I must believe it has been a while since the passing of your spouse.
      I wish you the best and encourage you to contact the estate attorney at your earliest opportunity to begin the steps needed to change that title to you.
      Reply to Michael
  9.   Joanne S.
    April 29th, 2019
    My husband who is on our reverse mortgage passed away. I have since remarried. The home is valued at $400,000; I now owe $450,000 on the loan. I want to add my new husband to the loan, so he won't have to move if I die first. What can we do? How much would HUD loan if we needed to get a new loan to refinance? He is 73, I am 74. Would there be a chance I would lose the home if we did try to refinance? My new husband has a good income so no problem paying tax and insurance.
    Reply to Joanne
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      April 29th, 2019
      Hello Joanne,
      You cannot add new borrowers to existing reverse mortgage loans. You would both have to qualify under the existing program parameters and if the home is worth less than what is currently owed on the loan, there really is no reason to refinance it at this time. You would have to bring in a considerable amount of money to do so and it's probably more in both your interest to continue to live in the home payment-free, saving assets until such time as you know what you need to do.
      You can add him to title at any time and make him your heir for the home which would give him the right to pay off the loan at the amount owed or 95% of the current market value after you pass, whichever is less. He could then get another reverse mortgage in his name (still would have to bring in a lot of money at that time) or a forward loan if that would work for him but at least you would not have to come in with all that cash now.
      I understand your position though and only you can decide which way is the best to proceed but if you did want to refinance at this time, based on what you are telling me, I believe it would take at least $225,000 cash into the transaction and maybe more to refinance it and probably more. If you would like to know the exact number, please feel free to visit our refinance calculator so you can run the numbers to see what the real costs would be.
      Reply to Michael
  10.   M. Gross
    April 23rd, 2019
    Non borrowing spouse on reverse mortgage name removed from title name on deed husband deceased can I be put on title now what rights do I have?
    Reply to M.
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      April 23rd, 2019
      This is a difficult situation for most non-borrowing spouses of reverse mortgage loans for loans closed prior to 2015. Unless your loan was closed after the rules changed in 2015 and you are now an "eligible non-borrowing spouse", you do not have the right to remain in the property after the passing of the borrowing spouse and I have to assume since you said that you came off title, your loan closed earlier (once the rules changed, non-borrowing spouse no longer had to come off of title).
      I do not know if you and your spouse ever took the steps to Deed you back on title, but that would have been the second thing I would have advised you to do (the first would be not to have closed the loan with you coming off of title unless you had a very strong plan in place for this eventuality).
      But let's assume that you also did not take the steps to put yourself back on title prior to this time. You need to seek out professional legal help to determine if your home needs to go through probation or what steps to place the home in your name now. You can't simply be put back on title, your spouse can do that before he passes but if you didn't do that before, he can't sign anything now so it would now require a legal action and this is why I advise you to seek legal assistance.
      I don't know what the attorney will have to do but I do know that the sooner you begin the steps required, the better off you will be. You may find that you can qualify for a new reverse mortgage on your own if both you and the property still qualify at this time; you may have to consider a different type of loan or possibly even a sale. But you can't do anything until you own the property and so the attorney is your first step.
      Reply to Michael
  11.   Carroll S.
    April 8th, 2019
    If I am not related to the person who got the reverse mortgage, can I still be on title if she wants me to be? I am over 65.
    Reply to Carroll
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      April 8th, 2019
      Hello Carroll,
      A person with a reverse mortgage can add anyone to title at any time, whether they are the minimum age of 62 required for a reverse mortgage or not. The loan documents state that if there is at least one original borrower still on title as well, others may also be added to title at any time.
      However, please remember that simply adding you to title will not keep the loan from being called due and payable if something should happen so that the borrower is no longer living in the home. Should she pass or be required to move to permanent assisted living elsewhere for example, the loan would still become due and payable at that time, even though you had been added to title.
      By adding you to title it might make it easier to sell the home later, it just won't keep the lender from calling the loan due and payable once she is no longer living in the property. The only way to accomplish that would be to have a loan with both your names on the loan and that also does not require that you be related in any way, just that you both be living in the home and it would require you to be over the age of 62 if you are not an eligible spouse (which at 65 years old, you obviously are).
      Reply to Michael
  12.   Olga L.
    April 3rd, 2019
    Can I still stay in the house if my husband dies since countrywide bank in a fraudulent way took my interest in the property by a defective quit claim deed... (ROBO SIGNATURE). but have me to sign the loan agreement but not the note.
    Reply to Olga
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      April 3rd, 2019
      Hello Olga,
      I would strongly suggest that you contact an attorney if you are concerned about whether you have the legal right to remain in the property after the death of the original borrower. I can make no assertion on the validity of a Quit Claim Deed that you signed because I am not familiar with the circumstances under which you signed it and I am not an attorney licensed to give you legal advice in the first place.
      If the loan was originated prior to 2015 and you were under the age of 62 at the time, the only way you and your husband could get a reverse mortgage would be if you agreed to come off title and let him do the loan by himself. This was not illegal and was part of the counseling process as well.
      While not illegal, it was not a very wise decision for most married couples though and many found themselves in a tight spot if the borrowing spouse passed before the non-borrowing spouse and the younger spouse then found themselves in the position where they had to either refinance the loan or sell the house as it sounds like you may be in now. If this was done under false pretenses, I think you should talk to legal representation as soon as possible.
      If all of this was disclosed to you at the beginning and you signed all the paperwork so indicating your approval, I don't know what the defense would be at this time. Countrywide did use electronic signatures on some of the original application documents in their package but those are legally binding and are not considered "robo-signatures".
      Your original signatures would be on the counseling documents and probably many other documents in the file as well. My advice would be for you to find all your original documents so that when you speak with your attorney, he/she knows exactly what they are working with to determine if the lender did anything inappropriately in the origination of the loan.
      I honestly do not know if the Countrywide process has ever been successfully challenged as being unlawful and I would advise that you not delay your attempt to contact an attorney. I do not know who owns the loan now that Countrywide is no longer in operation, but they will most likely be looking for repayment soon if your spouse has passed and the sooner you know your options, the better off you will be.
      Reply to Michael
  13.   Lonnie H.
    March 26th, 2019
    My boyfriend and I have lived together for 10 yrs. We are elderly, and he is thinking of taking out a reverse mortgage on his home to help with expenses. What do we need to do so I can remain in our house if he should pass before myself? I am not on the title of the house, should he change that or what other choices do we have?
    Reply to Lonnie
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      March 26th, 2019
      Good Afternoon,
      Since you are not a married couple, the only way to ensure that you can remain in the home without the loan being called due and payable if something were to happen to your significant other would be for both of you to be on the reverse mortgage. To do that, he would have to change the title to include you. Fortunately, it is not difficult. The only thing you both need to do is to decide what happens to the property when you both passes.
      If he/you are concerned about the property's final disposition, I would recommend that you visit an attorney who can advise you on the manner in which you can change the title so that the property will go to whatever heirs you determine in advance. If there is no contention regarding ultimate ownership, he can just Deed from himself to both of you now and you can get the reverse mortgage together.
      This is not legal advice, I am only letting you know that the loan allows this change of ownership. You should always check with your legal counsel to also be sure that if/when you do transfer the title, you make sure you do it in such a manner that you do not create a taxable event with your property taxes.
      Reply to Michael
  14.   Gary P.
    March 20th, 2019
    I am 68 years old and my wife is 58, can I get a reverse mortgage in my name only so we can get the most money from the mortgage. I think I read we can, it would only be in my name until I die, then she can get the mortgage in her name. Thank you. Gary
    Reply to Gary
    • Michael Branson Michael Branson
      March 20th, 2019
      Hello Gary,
      HUD allowed this until they changed their rules in 2014, effective in 2015. It may seem like a good idea to get more money now, but later if your spouse does not qualify, values have dropped and interest has accrued and she no longer has sufficient equity to sell and buy another home it is a terrible time to find out she no longer has a place to live when the loan becomes due and payable.
      We advised borrowers against this proceeding in this manner unless they had a sure-fire back-up plan such as a second home for the spouse to live in when the older spouse passed, an insurance policy that would pay the loan off, plans to live with other family members, etc. and now that HUD has eliminated this option, it is for the better. Borrowers can't just get a new loan in their name later, they must qualify for the loan and they must have enough equity at that time.
      Many borrowers who removed a spouse from title prior to HUD changes to do a reverse mortgage (or even those with both spouses over 62 but removed the substantially younger spouse to get more money) are now finding themselves in difficult situations due to the fact that higher interest rates, accrued interest on their loans and HUD cutbacks have kept the younger spouses from qualifying for reverse mortgage refinances later.
      Please feel free to browse through some of the letters we have received from desperate borrowers looking for answers on our site. It is never a good time to lose a loved one, but it is especially tragic when you lose your partner and then you find out that you have no place to live either.
      We strongly recommend that you look for a way to make it work with both borrowers on the loan so that both are protected should something happen to the older spouse. The odds are that the younger spouse will live longer and will need the protection. If you cannot do it in your current home, consider other options. Perhaps you can downsize and use the reverse mortgage to purchase a less expensive home that would allow both of you to be on the loan from the start.
      I know that relocation is often a bitter pill to swallow, but at times it really makes sense and if you end up with a home that better suits your needs and allows you both the ability to remain in the home for life without having to worry about what happens if the other spouse passes, it is certainly worth looking into.
      Reply to Michael

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